I've heard this argument several times from several different sources, that white people playing the Blues is not only ridiculous since white people can't jump or sing, but because they are stealing money out of the black bluesman's pocket. This opinion has always bothered me since it smacks of narrowmindedness and racism, but today I realized that neither side probably knew what they were talking about. I decided to do a little research. I wrote down all the blues artists I could think of off the top of my head, and looked up their bios. Didn't go in depth, the short bios on Wickipedia and AllMusic were my main sources. Even though this was only an afternoon worth of research, I found that the average bluesman's story goes something like this: Born in the 1910s or 20s, grew up in a large (I mean like over 10) family working the fields in the south, poor as dirt. Started local at the juke joints, then moved to a big city like Chicago and worked the clubs. Got discovered, enjoyed some popularity and money until the late 50s when blues went out of style. Went back to playing the clubs or got a blue collar job. A few decades later, was dug up by a blues enthusiast and restarted his career which lasted till he died. Had a drinking problem, spent some time in jail, and died of a heart attack in his late 50s or early 60s.
There are a few points to remember here: no prewar musician was given a 10 million dollar 5 record contract. Having $1500 in the bank was considered pretty damn good. And, music is a hard industry. Very few musicians of any genre "make it" and those that do usually don't stay popular and rich till they die. That being said, here's my nonscientific research results:
Name DOB DOD Born poor Died poor
B.B. King 1925 Yes No
Bessie Smith 1894 1937 Yes No
Big Bill Broonzy 1893 1958 Yes No
Big Boy Crudup 1905 1974 Yes No
Big Jack Johnson 1940 Yes No
Big Joe Williams 1903 1982 Yes No
Big Mama Thornton 1926 1984 Yes No
Big Walter Horton 1918 1981 Yes No
Blind Lemon Jefferson 1893 1929 Yes No
Bo Diddly 1928 Yes No
Bukka White 1909 1979 Yes No
Charley Patton 1891 1934 Yes No
Charlie Musselwhite 1944 Yes No
Guitar Slim 1926 1959 Yes No
Howlin' Wolf 1910 1976 Yes No
James Cotton 1935 Yes No
John Hammond, Jr 1942 No No
John Lee Hooker 1917 2001 Yes No
Johnny Winter 1944 No No
Jonny Lang 1981 No No
Junior Kimbrough 1930 1998 Yes No
Junior Wells 1934 1998 Yes No
Koko Taylor 1935 Yes No
Leadbelly 1888 1949 Yes No
Lightnin' Hopkins 1912 1982 Yes No
Little Walter 1930 1968 Yes No
Lonnie Johnson 1894 1970 Yes No
Ma Rainey 1886 1939 Yes No
Memphis Minnie 1897 1973 Yes Yes
Memphis Slim 1915 1988 Yes No
Mississippi John Hurt 1892 1966 Yes No
Muddy Waters 1913 1983 Yes No
Otis Rush 1934 Yes No
Otis Spann 1930 1970 Yes No
R.L. Burnside 1926 Yes No
Robert Belfour 1940 Yes No
Slim Harpo 1924 1970 Yes No
Son House 1902 1988 Yes No
Susan Tedeschi 1970 No No
Taj Mahal 1942 No No
T-Bone Walker 1910 1975 Yes No
Wille Dixon 1915 1992 Yes No
There are a few points to remember here: no prewar musician was given a 10 million dollar 5 record contract. Having $1500 in the bank was considered pretty damn good. And, music is a hard industry. Very few musicians of any genre "make it" and those that do usually don't stay popular and rich till they die. That being said, here's my nonscientific research results:
Name DOB DOD Born poor Died poor
B.B. King 1925 Yes No
Bessie Smith 1894 1937 Yes No
Big Bill Broonzy 1893 1958 Yes No
Big Boy Crudup 1905 1974 Yes No
Big Jack Johnson 1940 Yes No
Big Joe Williams 1903 1982 Yes No
Big Mama Thornton 1926 1984 Yes No
Big Walter Horton 1918 1981 Yes No
Blind Lemon Jefferson 1893 1929 Yes No
Bo Diddly 1928 Yes No
Bukka White 1909 1979 Yes No
Charley Patton 1891 1934 Yes No
Charlie Musselwhite 1944 Yes No
Guitar Slim 1926 1959 Yes No
Howlin' Wolf 1910 1976 Yes No
James Cotton 1935 Yes No
John Hammond, Jr 1942 No No
John Lee Hooker 1917 2001 Yes No
Johnny Winter 1944 No No
Jonny Lang 1981 No No
Junior Kimbrough 1930 1998 Yes No
Junior Wells 1934 1998 Yes No
Koko Taylor 1935 Yes No
Leadbelly 1888 1949 Yes No
Lightnin' Hopkins 1912 1982 Yes No
Little Walter 1930 1968 Yes No
Lonnie Johnson 1894 1970 Yes No
Ma Rainey 1886 1939 Yes No
Memphis Minnie 1897 1973 Yes Yes
Memphis Slim 1915 1988 Yes No
Mississippi John Hurt 1892 1966 Yes No
Muddy Waters 1913 1983 Yes No
Otis Rush 1934 Yes No
Otis Spann 1930 1970 Yes No
R.L. Burnside 1926 Yes No
Robert Belfour 1940 Yes No
Slim Harpo 1924 1970 Yes No
Son House 1902 1988 Yes No
Susan Tedeschi 1970 No No
Taj Mahal 1942 No No
T-Bone Walker 1910 1975 Yes No
Wille Dixon 1915 1992 Yes No
posted by:
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Colorado Springs
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Re: Whitey stealing the Blues
Fri, December 30, 2005 - 6:17 AMCool list. Just goes to show, that no matter where a person is in life they are jealous of the other guy. And I think people just need to complain and bitch about something. No matter what their race is.
I am going to use your list to check my pile of CDs and see whose missing. I want to make sure I spread some of my money around to all them. I don’t want anybody to feel slighted. -
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Unsu...
Re: Whitey stealing the Blues
Fri, December 30, 2005 - 11:18 AMI am curious to know what your definition of poor is. The vast majority of the people on your list died without a pot to piss in. -
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Unsu...
Re: Whitey stealing the Blues
Fri, December 30, 2005 - 11:21 AMDidn't recognize you at first...no definition needed. :) -
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Re: Whitey stealing the Blues
Fri, December 30, 2005 - 11:53 AMGood question. Poor is a relative term, so I did have to come up with a standard to apply to all of them. I defined poor as the worst situation many of them started out in, in a small house with lots of kids, one parent, working long hours in the field with little pay. Not much food, not many clothes, no chance at education.
I defined not poor as basically having food, shelter, and a little bit of money. This may be argued with a few of them, some of them died in a rented room. The way I figured it, the majority of them didn't have a place to piss in let alone a pot when they started out. Many of them were homeless or damn near when they started out. Most of them did have very rough times in the decades that America forgot the Blues. But when they died, most of them were actively working in their revived careers. They were not rich, but like I said in my first post a rich musician is a new thing, as is a rich athlete. That's why I used the term "not poor" instead of rich.
According to the bios I read, the majority of the people on the list died less than a year after cutting a record, being in a movie, or while on tour. Now granted, a few of them died violently or drank themselves to death. An example is Little Walter, who had a notorious temper, had a serious drinking problem and fought a lot. He died from the effects of a street fight in 1968, but he had just cut a record with Muddy Waters and Bo Diddley in 1967. There was only one incident where it is clear that a person died miserable and lonely, and that's Memphis Minnie.
But like I said, this is in no way scientific, just a casual bit of research on my part. The short bios that I read on Wikipedia and Allmusic usually did not emphatically state "this person died poor" or "this person died wealthy". I made what I think is a reasonable assumption that if they still had an active music career at the time if their deaths, they were not dirt poor. But to answer the question thoroughly you'd have to read a lot of biographies, and probably go hunt people down to interview them, since not a lot of these guys have biographies written about them. -
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Unsu...
Re: Whitey stealing the Blues
Fri, December 30, 2005 - 12:13 PMYou should read, "Blues With A Feeling - The Little Walter Story." It might give you some insight into the reality that having an active musical career doesn't mean a thing if you get no royalties from your music. He was given a token Cadillac once in awhile as the Chess brothers made a fortune.
Rather than get into another pissing match which gets us both kicked out of here I would like to apologize for anything I may have said in the past. You are probably a decent guy. I just get defensive and a little arrogant when it comes to blues music. I have studied it passionately for years. I can't help myself.
Any friend of the blues is fine by me. I may have to disagree but I'll try to mellow out a little. :) -
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Re: Whitey stealing the Blues
Fri, December 30, 2005 - 4:07 PMCool with me, and I apologize for our earlier pissing match also. You're absolutelt right about the car. It seems that a lot of prewar musicians got done dirty like that, here's a car while we make all the money. How much did a car cost back then? $500? Wow. But it also seems that after the British Invasion of the folk revival or whatever the hell you want to call it, a lot of these guys got legitimate contracts with royalties and all that.
There is a point to people stealing money from these guys, but I think the wrong culprit is being blamed. It seems to me that a lot of blues players that first made it in the 60s, black and white, went to great lengths to dig up their heroes and help them restart their careers. I read several accounts of guys like Johnny Winter, Eric Clapton, The Rolling Stones, and Canned Heat go searching for these guys, talk their label into signing them on, bringing them along on their tours, and taking them to Europe where they would be treated with respect. Whether or not you like white Blues musicians, IMHO a lot of the blues gods would have died poor and alone if it wasn't for them.
It seems the real assholes are the rock & roll stars, like Led Zepellin. Arguably one of the biggest and best rock groups, not hurting for money, but instead of giving props to the blues masters who's songs they covered, they pretended like they wrote the songs themselves. You could say assholes like that took bread from a poor man's mouth, and I would not disagree with you. -
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Re: Whitey stealing the Blues
Tue, January 3, 2006 - 9:18 AM"like Led Zepellin. Arguably one of the biggest and best rock groups, not hurting for money, but instead of giving props to the blues masters who's songs they covered, they pretended like they wrote the songs themselves."
Of course, Zep's "Whole Lotta Love" is Willie Dixon's "You Need Love" word for word... well, I read recently that The Small Faces used to do a cover of You Need Love in their live sets in the mid 60's. It was the SF's cover version that Led Zeppelin heard and based Whole Lotta Love on. So they couldn't have given credit to Dixon or Muddy Waters since they didn't even know who they were ripping off when they ripped it off! -
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Re: Whitey stealing the Blues
Tue, January 3, 2006 - 9:26 AMYeah,
I think "you shook me" is also a Dixon tune among others. If I remember right Dixon's family sued Zep and won a copyright infringement suite. Zep now gives proper credit and royalties to Dixon and others. I think Page also gave a formal apology.
This was mostly the exception and not the rule IMO. Most white rock artists have given proper credits such as Clapton, Grateful Dead and the Rolling Stones.
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Re: Whitey stealing the Blues
Sun, January 1, 2006 - 5:48 AMIS THIS JUKE WHO PLAYS W/ THE TRIPLE AAA IN PENN. STATE?
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Re: Whitey stealing the Blues
Mon, January 30, 2006 - 4:54 AMHey group,
The music industry robs and spits out people of all color.
Black, white, anyone and many have been ripped off by the music industry, and cheated from receiving proper royalties.
Also to remember, that many riffs and melodic structures of Blues come from Appalachian Mt. tunes, which trace back to old English, Scottish and Irish folk tunes. Listen to Lead-Belly for example.
What makes any music great is how it absorbss from other kinds of music to grow and develope.
Not one kind of music in the world is pure and untouched, and totally original, without influence or borrowing from something else.
I like being on this list, you all touch on very thoughtful and intelligent topics, this is great!
-Eric
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Re: Whitey stealing the Blues
Tue, December 12, 2006 - 9:20 PMThis is hardly an even remotely accurate means of deciding wheher or not someone died poor. There are a number of good books out on how the record industry works... being on tour, recently recording an album, or having signed a contract does not in anyway imply wealth. It doesn't even imply middle class... especially when you consider how many of the artists on your list had sunk into obscurity prior to their rediscovery, and were living in debt.
Without some sort of way of determining their net worth you're going to have a hard case proving anything about their financial status.
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Re: Whitey stealing the Blues
Sun, January 1, 2006 - 5:46 AMI'm white, born poor, in my 40s w/ no chance of stardom, I am a bluesman.
I did not start playing blues cause it was pop, or because I saw the "blues brothers". I begans playing the blues cause it was the stuff I liked the best of what I heard as a child. My grand mother played "honkey btonk" piano and was on the radio in the 30s, played the bars for drinks til she died. My mom played gospel and "boogie woogie that she learned from her mom. This whitey plays real modern blues, I write and perform, cause last time I checked America still lets me be me....NO BLACK, NO WHITE, JUST BLUES. -
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Unsu...
Re: Whitey stealing the Blues
Sun, January 1, 2006 - 6:47 AMNo, this is Juke in Chicago.
I know what you are saying DP and I agree with you. I respect certain white/British Invasion type guys. At least they took the time to do a little investigating. My problem is with, and I know I sound like a grumpy old-timer at 37, the youngsters who look at the current crop of pseudo-blues-rockers and think their only influences were the Stones, SRV, or Clapton. I don't blame them so much as it is the modern McMusic industry. Why shouldn't they market Clapton as some originator of the blues? They can sell his back catalog as some history of the blues.
Where does this leave the genre when those coming into it think KWS or Jonny Lang are the second coming of people who had shaky blues credentials to begin with? Of course, people like us seek the source but we can only buy so many albums. It kind of like the "Year of the Blues," that happened. Somehow the music wasn't enough. They had to bring in Martin Scorsese to add a brand name to the project. To continue my rant, it's like the Chuck Berry tribe here. The main pic was of him with John Lennon. Now I like JL but why do they have to feature the real King of Rock and Roll with him? It's an interesting pic but does it need to be the main pic? -
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Re: Whitey stealing the Blues
Mon, January 23, 2006 - 4:13 PMImho you don't have to be black to have had the blues and thus by living the blues be able to play the music with a feeling. Hope I'm not sounding obtuse here.
When you're talking British white folk, how about Roy Buchanan, someone I liked a lot. Born in Scotland, his father was a fire and brimstone preacherman and times weren't easy. I remember an interview where he was asked why he thought he played the blues the way he did, he said it was cause he was crying inside. A year later he had hung himself to death, so I guess he was feeling pretty low down, if you know what I mean.
I maintain that even though he didn't have slave origins and probably never picked cotton, he was entitled to be called a bluesman. -
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Re: Whitey stealing the Blues
Mon, January 30, 2006 - 6:30 AM"When you're talking British white folk, how about Roy Buchanan"
He sure had a haunting sound, unlike anything I ever heard.
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Unsu...
Re: Whitey stealing the Blues
Sat, February 18, 2006 - 8:19 AMI agree - you do not have to be black to play the Blues - there a ton of good and really good artists out there (and btw I appreciate them). Your reference to Roy is a great example of that. However... that said, when I look down my list of 100 favorite Bluesman of all time (pick a sub genre), there is not but three 'non-black' players. I'm not biast, or a purist by any means, and still only three of 100!
To me Peter Green (the early Greenie - not the psyco, fat, lost my mind one) is the only white player that would make my top 10. SRV at times sure found that vibe with the thick-string-tele-tone and would be in the top 25 for my ears, and Roy somewhere down the list.
Oh.... and as to the original post, I too would have to disagree. Defining poor as more than they had when they came into this world is a pretty LOW standard. Most every passed on Bluesman on the list maybe had the POT to piss, but that's about it. And I could add even more names to the list to illustrate. Heck, take even a recent example of a fairly popular (considering the genre and now-a-days- album sales) Blues artist who just recently died (let alone the others who passed back when) and to me it highlights it perfectly. = RL Burnside, he was selling, with a popular (for Blues) label, doing shows, had some cross over, etc, etc, - AND STILL some folks had to pass some money to the family to 'help out'.
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Re: Whitey stealing the Blues
Mon, January 2, 2006 - 11:28 AM"This whitey plays real modern blues"
Yeah,
I never could get the attittude if they didn't play with Willie Dixon for Chess they aint blues mentalilty.
Blues is evolvolving just like everything else. Smart bluesmen like BB and Buddy are very aware of this.
I like all forms of blues:
Delta, Chicago, Texas Roadhouse, Jump, Swing you name it.
There are a ton of great white bluesmen like Kim Wilson and Rod Piazza out there who always pay homage to thier late and great black predecessors from the Delta.
You don't see many young blacks playing straight blues anymore but there are new variations played by Keb Mo, Kirk Fletcher and Lucky Peterson to name a few.
Its all good and I am glad to see whites from big city suburbs are still carrying on the the delta blues tradition in one form or another.
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Re: Whitey stealing the Blues
Thu, June 29, 2006 - 7:03 AMMy father, who is in his 80's, grew up 2 miles off Highway 61, plowed with a mule that died every two weeks because my grandfather was a shitty trader, cropped a cane lot till he ran away to live in the woods, got an orange for Christmas, heard Peetee Wheatstraw in a blind pig, knew the field hollers, has forgotten the names of a dozen musicians down the road that Blind Possum AND Alan Lomax would give anything to record, hummed the sound to me when i was a baby, the whole nine yards.
And is white. Remembers a lynching victim hung from a bridge girder down there that was left to hang 2 months as a warning to teach them all How Things Were. Hates the south.
I introduced him to reggae week before last, and we were talking about why we liked about the sound, and that turned into a conversation about country being ruined by Vegas and Top 40, and he (not the most introspective man) said of reggae and blues, "you can't fake it,", i.e., you can't add Vegas and studio production and caesuras and 'sweetening' to an inauthentic sound and retofit it into an authentic sound. Think of Pat Boone trying to sing Little Richard, or Elvis doing Hound Dog-- five seconds of Big Mama Thornton's version knocked all the Elvis out of my head (okay, okay, 'he was great before he went in the Army', can we give it a rest? Jeez.)
Funny sidebar story: when I was helping with a community theatre production of a play called "Ladyhouse Blues", they needed a street vendor calling off stage-- and because I could mimic the "black" sound I'd heard from my father (and Leadbelly), the director recorded me selling vegetables and for the run of the show I was Kalamazoo's Elvis, a white boy singing black. if I'd stepped from behind the curtain, it would have destroyed the illusion, because in person I look like a long lost Clancy Brother. Maybe when I'm so old and wrinkly that I've moved beyond categories, I'll put on a panama hat and sing the blues in public-- I kid, I kid. (Another nice thing about "authentic" musics-- you just get better as you get older.)
That being said, I DO cringe at a lot of white-boy-garage-band-blues, but it's because of the sound and the suburban lyrics that whine instead of howl, not the color of the musicians. I've also seen more than one plump pale white boy step in fron of a skeptical audience and rip a sound out of his guitar or his voice that has everyone in the audience murmuring, "Shiiit.." and the black blues fans in the audience lean forward with a little open mouthed smile. The best version of "God Bless the Child" I ever heard was an impromptu performance by a Little Stoner Hippie White Chick that shuffled in to a New Orleans bar after hours. And I've seen black musicians fake it, and black folks dismiss Muddy Waters as "that old country music" in favor of easily dismissed pop singers with lots of caesura.
The cry from the heart in the sea chanty "Venezuela", or an honest version of "The Parting Glass can hold it's own with Keb Mo's version of "Love in Vain" (my current favorite), and the pain in that sound earns a respectful hush from Robert Johnson up in Heaven.
So I'm voting with y'all who say it's in the color of the sound that comes out of the musician, not the amount of melanin in his skin.
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Re: Whitey stealing the Blues
Tue, January 3, 2006 - 8:22 AMwow, excellent list. You are right-- back in the day, blues was considered 'ethnic' music and not widely available nor supported outside of the black community. We're lucky we have as much recorded blues as we do.
Funny, at blues festivals nowadays, it seems that white folk far outnumber black folk in the audience. -
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Re: Whitey stealing the Blues
Tue, January 3, 2006 - 8:57 AMYes, excellent list.
Off the top of my head the only big names missing are:
Robert Johnson
Sonny Boy Williamson (1 and 2)
Buddy Guy
Ike Turner
SRV
Others:
Little Milton
Jr Watson
Robert Cray
Keb Mo
Anson Funderburgh
Gatemouth Brown
Pinetop Perkins
Kid Ramos
Bob Margolin
Etta James
Kim Wilson
Rod Piazza
Jimmie Vaughn
Coco Montoya
Debbie Davies
Albert Collins
Lonnie Mack
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Re: Whitey stealing the Blues
Sun, February 19, 2006 - 3:51 PMMaybe we should rephrase, Whitey sharing the blues. Whilst respecting its origins, to me music not only doesn't have colour, it brings people of all colors together. There's no doubt that there are huge numbers of white folk (and yellow and other colours:) at blues festivals. From my experieince there would be more white folk at blues and jazz clubs if it was safe. I tried to go to the Cotton Club in NY once when I was there on business and was told that I could get a taxi in before dark, but that none would come to pick me up afterwards. I was gutted! I ended up going to see Spyro Gyra in Manhatten instead.It was good, but not what I wanted. -
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Re: Whitey stealing the Blues
Fri, March 31, 2006 - 3:58 PMAgreed... the thought that ran through my mind when I read this headline was.... how can we say "Eric Clapton can't play the blues, a 'black' style, because he's white?" I mean, we wouldn't say "Ray Charles can't play country & western, a 'white' style, because he's black."
To be fair, a lot of people did get on Ray's case for that, calling him a sellout, a commercial gimmick and all that. Similar to the same treatment that a lot of white blues guys get.
Ultimately I don't think either style comes with a colour on it. Look at Ray Charles, and look at guys like Clarence 'Gatemouth' Brown, and a lot of the blues that come out of Texas. Southern rock's another good example of how styles that people call "white" and "black" don't really conform to race lines.
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Re: Whitey stealing the Blues
Thu, August 24, 2006 - 6:30 AMAnd one other that I think is pretty important!!
Stevie Ray Vaughn......
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Re: Whitey stealing the Blues
Wed, May 10, 2006 - 5:37 AMI can’ t agree less with people using this kind of arguments. Culture and specially music is conspicuously the essence of universality. Check out how many hundreds of millions listen, enjoy and even play music in a language they don’t speak at all. Moreover blues is quite grateful to the whiteys. I can’ t say it better than B.B. King: 'Thank you, white blues musicians for opening doors for the blues' .
Indeed. Where would this wonderful and delicious rootsmusic be today without the 'British Invadors' like The Yardbirds, Bluesbreakers, Blind Faith, Fleetwood Mac (early version), Clapton, Mayall, Beck, Page, Winwood etc. They made it accepted in the UK and Europe up to university lectures and the living rooms of the royalties. And then they took it back in the 60’s to the USA where it was almost dead. White America discovered, accepted and respected the blues due to these guys. They contributed hugely to the popularization of this genre, they animated it, envigorated it and even revolutionized it. The later and current white bluesies from all over the world contributed also a lot; think of Stevie Ray Vaughan, Markus James, Bonnie raitt, Carlos Guitarlos, Mark Knopfler, Joe Bonamassa, Ronnie Earl, Susan Tedeschi, Ana Popovic to mention a few.
With all due respect, dudes using this kind of argumentation don’t know their ass from a whole in the ground concerning the history of the blues and universality of culture, c.q. music. So white, black, green, red, blue … people continue playing, enjoying and breathing the blues.
Excuses if I repeat some comments; don’t have time to read …
Cheers,
A blues lover as black as hell in paradise -
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Re: Whitey stealing the Blues
Wed, May 10, 2006 - 8:20 AMI couldn't agree more!!
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Unsu...
Re: Whitey stealing the Blues
Wed, May 10, 2006 - 11:42 AMWow!!! My Grandson just finished a finger-painting masterpiece.
When it comes to the genre, he, " animated it, envigorated (sic) it and even revolutionized it."
Cool, you can apply the same logic to anything! -
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Re: Whitey stealing the Blues
Wed, May 10, 2006 - 2:33 PMKnotken,
Please feel free to use the formula, correct mistakes and apply the wow-logic anywhere, anytime. One small tip though: Sarcasm never replaces reasoning and honesty, not even in regard with your ‘grandson’.
By the way, sorry to anybody I might have offended with the rather strong words at the end of the piece. -
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Unsu...
Re: Whitey stealing the Blues
Thu, May 11, 2006 - 1:56 PMSarcasm doesn’t replace but obviously confuses.
Will you please enlighten me with your reasoning behind the assumption that ANY of the people you mentioned revolutionized blues music?
Cheers,
Dude who knows a hole from a whole and finds garbled syntax as hilarious as pseudo-historians. -
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Re: Whitey stealing the Blues
Thu, May 11, 2006 - 9:56 PMThank you for the promotion. I m so flattered that I became red !
For your info., I started loving the blues only about 10 years ago, one of many reasons why I don’t pretend at all to be an expert or even something in the vicinity. Quite on the contrary; I feel privileged to be a simple blueslover. Furthermore, some/many of the people I mentioned don’t even figure in my collection. It was just a list off the head to which you could add many other names. No doubt that their talent needs no advocate; but talent is not the only/main ingredient of the recipe. Is it?
Concerning enlightening/-ment you could eventually consult descendants of Siddhartha... it seems to me though you’ve a burning desire to get rid of the invadors, specially Clapton. If this assumption is true, just do it but don’t hurt yourself in the process. Cheer up!
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Unsu...
Re: Whitey stealing the Blues
Fri, May 12, 2006 - 11:18 AMLet me cheerfully submit, if those "revolutionaries" are good enough for you then by all means you and your buddy Buddha go enjoy some Clapton. If you ever want to listen to some blues let me know and I will make some recommendations for you.
I noticed where you are writing from....I have a feeling Amsterdam's finest played a part in your "reasoning." I've been known to come up with some pretty wild theories myself but I've never mistaken pampered British rock stars for bluesmen. :)
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Re: Whitey stealing the Blues
Fri, May 12, 2006 - 12:44 PMYou listen to some Derik and the Dominos and even some Cream there is some serious blues guitar. I know BB King respects Clapton's work for sure.
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Re: Whitey stealing the Blues
Sat, May 13, 2006 - 5:31 AMSerious: Clapton is for me a rocker, a bluesrocker AND a bluesman; that is why Buddha and I would be grateful if you recommend some of his works because he hardly figures in our collection.
Very serious: the pioneer-geniuses of all colours are in my house and soul alive and kicking; even or maybe specially those who’re already dead. Would you care to recommend some good newcomers, particularly guitar- or harmonica-virtuosi including women.
Thank you in advance. -
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Re: Whitey stealing the Blues
Sat, May 13, 2006 - 6:10 AMB.B. King has repsect for Clapton, as did Muddy Waters (who called him his son) Buddy Guy, Freddie King and Howlin' Wolf to name only a few legends. The work Clapton did on the 1st Bluesbreakers is totally pioneering, as Blues guitar had never been played like that before, it was a new Blues, the future of Blues guitar, love it or leave it. Peter Green, awesome guitar player. As much as I still love Beck, and Page as guitar players, I don't love them as much as Blues players, certainly not players like Clapton and Green.
Anyone who claims to love the Blues, and hears tracks from the "Bluesbreakers: featuring Eric Clapton" and is unmoved by the authority of that guitar, tone, phrasing, emotion and ATTITUDE, should have their head examined.
I don't think anyone proves authenticity as a Bluesologist by shitting on British guitarists and making their point by exclaiming that only the founding fathers made "real' Blues.
I think Sanaag shows some very legitimate musical examples and expresses himself accurately as someone who is well-rounded in his listening instead of having tunnel vision.
I love Clapton, SRV, Peter Green, and I know Blues. I don't need to pull my Robert Johnson and Skip James cards to prove I know anything.
-Eric
p.s. Buddha is awesome and always will be!
Sanaag, you've got good taste and I respect your knowledge.
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Re: Whitey stealing the Blues
Sat, May 13, 2006 - 11:09 AMSanaag,
For Clapton I highly also recommend:
" From the Cradle" his first complete Blues album. (bsides with the Bluesbreakers) Nice covers of Freddie King and Robert Johnson to name a couple.
"Running with the King" Clapton and BB King
"The Layla Sessions" Box set. Killer guitar including Duane Allman's slide. Great stuff.
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Re: Whitey stealing the Blues
Sat, May 13, 2006 - 11:24 AMSanaag,
For new stuff I recommend Jackie Greene. He is more Folk than Blues but If you like Harp players, singer songwriter types, you would dig this kid.
Check out the North Mississippi Allstars. This is Whitey stealling the Blues at its best (LOL). If you like RL Burnside you would love these guys.
I will see G Love and Special Sauce next weekend and report back. He is a cool mix of Hip Hop and Blues and is receiving lotts of love out there.
For women I would recommend listening to Shemkeia Copeland (the late Johnny Copeland's daughter). If you like Coco Taylor she would work for you.
Looking forward to the Doheny Blues Fest next weekend.
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Re: Whitey stealing the Blues
Sat, May 13, 2006 - 11:28 AMsp "Koko" Taylor
My bad.
Coco Montoya (ex- Bluesbreaker) spells his name that way.
Along those line check out Mayall's "Chicago Line" Montoya's guitar sizzles on that album. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Whitey stealing the Blues
Mon, May 15, 2006 - 9:35 AMThanks evreybody. The newcomers am talking about are actually the NEW VINTAGE, those who came by in the last couple of years or others who hardly get coverage. Good locals whose music is downloadable are also welcome. -
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Re: Whitey stealing the Blues
Mon, May 15, 2006 - 9:57 AMOk,
Check out Kirk Fletcher:
www.mnblues.com/cdreview/2...des-cr.html
I have been following him since he first came up.
also check out Walter Trout:
www.waltertrout.com/
He has been around a while but not much pub out there. -
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Unsu...
Re: Whitey stealing the Blues
Sat, May 20, 2006 - 4:54 PMLet's make it about the music. Yeah, Clapton has some good tunes. Some whites in the blues music "biz" have good intentions...more power to them. However, when you are down and out who among them is going to grab you by the heart and bring you back from the brink? This is more than some internet bullshit. I mean when you are facing your most painful moments. Who is going to wrap their arm around you and say, "Hey brother, been there. Life is one mean bitch."
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